hyper2"Waoh but we beat the British with our American spunk!!!!"
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Normie Infiltrator
PugJesus
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Explanation: In US founding mythology, the ‘minutemen’, part-time militia, are often afforded a disproportionately large role in winning the Revolutionary War against the British.
… but as George Washington himself noted, “To place any dependence on Militia, is, assuredly resting upon a broken staff.” American militia were notoriously unreliable and ineffective, and their saving grace was that they were often lodged up against other, equally ineffective Loyalist militia. Battles wherein the American militiamen were the primary force involved could end after casualties in the double or even single digits. “Freedom or death” my ass.
Most of the actual fighting was done by the Continental Army, which was a fairly proper military force, made up by volunteers who signed up for set enlistment periods and were put under institutions which imposed organization and training standards, especially after the German-American General Friedrich Wilhelm Von Steuben reformed the Continental Army’s structure and doctrine.
That being said, there is a hint of truth to the lionization of the American militia - even if they weren’t particularly effective soldiers, being willing to show up to an actual war and get shot at is, itself, a pretty firm expression of support, which, given the purportedly democratic ethos of the American Revolution, the Revolutionaries were quick to highlight.
Not only that, but some militia did have outsized effect compared to their numbers - namely, sharpshooters with the American long rifle - considered, before the Revolutionary War, to be almost entirely a hunting weapon. After the Revolutionary War, even European powers would scramble to adopt variants of it for military skirmishers. But sharpshooters equipped with rifles were a tiny minority of American militia, most of whom had smoothbore muskets of varying quality.
Traditional European short rifles were made for ease-of-aiming for nobility while hunting, without sacrificing the range or accuracy of a longer smoothbore, around ~100 yards. Nice to have, but hardly a vital addition to a military arsenal when most enemy troops are marching in massive, hard-to-miss formations anyway. American long rifles were made for nailing animals at 300+ yards, and American sharpshooters pulling off the novel feat of plinking British officers at a distance so significant that the Brits literally had no means of response was… immensely demoralizing in multiple battles.
The Rangers started as militia. Killing the British officers definitely had an out-sized impact, and Washington got his ass kicked, soldiers killed, sickened and injured, formations stranded with tenuous supply-lines, until he learned to adapt militia and small formation tactics. Lafayette got recognized and promoted for using the militia effectively instead of attempting to use them for fodder.
Nice job cherry-picking a Washington quote from before he learned anything of substance about killing Red-Coats. Maybe put your claims in the post body instead of the comments next time.
EDIT: forgot where I was, but still, you’re supposed to talk-up the NCD, like its weaknesses are strengths, not just pooh-pooh what works only to walk it back.
Which ‘rangers’? There were a number of units who called themselves such.
Sure, as I note in the explanation.
… Washington had experience leading militia before the Revolutionary War. Washington got his ass kicked precisely because he didn’t have anything resembling a proper army, and the Fabian Strategy of avoiding direct confrontation was a stalling method, not a commitment to winning the war with militia. All of Washington’s victories were achieved primarily through a strengthened post-Valley Forge Continental Army utilizing traditional European tactics, as modified by General Von Steuben for American norms, against British regulars using similar tactics.
God love Lafayette, but he received his commission by virtue of being French at a time when we needed French assistance desperately. His presence looked good - that he turned out to be immensely competent was an unexpected bonus. And Lafayette was notably screwed by the incompetence of American militiamen at Barren Hill.
Okay, how about this 1780 Washington quote on the efficacy of militia:
1780 was still the middle of the Revolutionary war, and Washington was still getting his ass kicked on the regular at that point. Washington himself advocated for including militias in defense planning after the war, and the US Federal government did not even maintain a standing, PAID, Army of any significance until over a century after Washington’s death. As early as 1784, Veterans were being told by Congress “we can’t pay you for services already rendered, fuck-off.”
Funny story, there are still multiple Ranger units, and a lot of them trace to or were inspired by those same diverse units. Training and Doctrine may be standardized at Ranger School, but many units still train to their own internal standards, Army-wide. There were standards, a Federal chain-of-command, and even a few thousand Federal soldiers(a Brigade or three by number of bodies, but effectively organised like-so? Well…) over most State units between 1799 and WW1, but in effect it was more like cross-training between nearly-independent State units and Federal standard-bearers, even volunteers.
At some point I may have started talking out my ass almost as much as your first comment, but I’m sending it. I’ll buy you a beer if that makes you sad.
… 1780 was near the end of the war. Yorktown was literally the next year.
Because a proper military was not in the cards, considering the near-bankruptcy of the Federal government, until the crisis of St. Clair’s Defeat in the literal second year of Washington’s presidency gave the necessary urgency for Washington to expand the small professional force of the post-Revolutionary period.
Does the First American Regiment mean anything to you? Legion of the United States? Uhhh, the US fucking Army?
… that’s not why veterans were failing to receive their pay. It was delayed because Congress was deep in fucking debt. Washington himself addressed protesting veterans promising that they would receive their promised pay and pensions, and that Congress was doing their best.
… that’s not even close to true.
No sadness, just a discussion.
Does the First American Regiment mean anything to YOU!? A Regiment is smaller the same size than a Brigade, so claiming I dismissed the First American Regiment is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Doesn’t change the fact that until WW1, the entirety of the “Legion of the United States” numbered at or less than the personal guards of the Roman emperors.
Rifles and canons are force-multipliers, sure, but you’re talking up the military significance of a “fighting force” that was under-staffed for keeping the State Regiments trained, keeping hundreds of installations staffed at even skeleton-crew levels, and maintaining/hoarding an absurdly outsized number of libraries and weapons for its size, while dismissing all of those things it was actually doing, and doing well. Meanwhile, there has always been the Navy and the Marines.
Go watch Dances with Wolves, and tell me about the combined-arms strength of THAT US army. There’s a reason stories like The Postman resonate or at least sell well - the experiences of a US Army Soldier were only truly differentiated from rando militia-men and state soldiers by his time in (likely embedded)training and actual wars, except wait, militiamen served in those too! Maybe his uniform and rifle were nicer… Shame about all those well-earned boot-polishing medals.
The Federal government has always been able to maintain a viable land-based fighting force by way of calling up fresh meat and veterans when needed, keeping the stock-piles dry and the books well-dusted. At some point, we were regularly staffed to the point of keeping guards at the Tomb of The Unknown Soldier, but that’s a modern luxury, an indulgence of playing at state-craft in a way the old powers and Banana Republics can recognize.
When our “allies"(because we say-so) get out-of-line, we don’t deploy regiments to abduct or kill their leaders. We shove some bodies in a glorified Diving Bell launched from a submarine and coordinate some chaos with bribed locals.
Our Middle Eastern interventionism? Its more about the Raytheon Guy getting a new yacht, and statistically safer than keeping those soldiers at home. Win win, but fuck the volunteer Army, right?
A standing paid army of some significance.
Fucking what. Do you… do you not remember the War of 1812? The Mexican-American War? The Civil fucking War? The Indian Wars? The Spanish-American War?
… training state regiments wasn’t a duty of the Regiment, Legion, or early US Army. Fuck’s sake…
Jesus fucking Christ, are you really using a romance movie as a source.
Fucking what.
what.
… fucking what.
… are you fucking stupid.
The conversation was about a US STANDING Army, aka, what was kept active during peacetime. I know, with the past few decades, its easy to forget that Congress used to actually declare wars and call-up Armies to fight them, but between those conflicts, the borrowed/new units were disbanded and/or returned to their states. How lost are you? Were you this lost the whole time?
The main character in that movie is based on dozens of real people. So many so, that they tried to come up with a random nobody name, and accidentally named a white man who had actually sided with Native Tribes in a fight gainst the US.
… as for the rest of your gibberish, I’m sure your care-taker is around here somewhere, but I’m under no obligation to take your be-wildered non-sense at face value. You went from “not sad” to seemingly-enraged over some in-kind banter in a satire community; You should probably look-into mood-stabilizers and have your blood-pressure checked.
Anyways, I’m done here. Take care of yourself.
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